i see it as vegans and non-vegans should not procreate in order to save their would-be children from suffering. I see the question from the child's point of view. it all depends on one's level of optimism that things will get better. personally i have seen that selfishness is a core attribute of most humans that will continue, and for that reason, given the small window of time we have to collectively ascend higher, I don't see a paradigm shift happening soon enough. I love my children, that's why I don't have any.

lionandlamb wrote:

QUOTE:
i see it as vegans and non-vegans should not procreate in order to save their would-be children from suffering. I see the question from the child's point of view. it all depends on one's level of optimism that things will get better. personally i have seen that selfishness is a core attribute of most humans that will continue, and for that reason, given the small window of time we have to collectively ascend higher, I don't see a paradigm shift happening soon enough. I love my children, that's why I don't have any.

As I see it, if anyone should stop procreating it shouldn't be Vegan people who care and have deep moral and spiritual sense. Using animal products (or not) and what we eat does effect us spiritually and morally and whereas I agree that the world can be a horrible place for children, it's not going to help humankind to "ascend higher" by giving up on the world. Nor is it going to help anyone, including other creatures and animals, if all that is left behind is greed, hate and cruelty, because people who care have gone extinct.

On a more personal level, the subject of children touches a nerve with me because I never had any and at my age it's not going to happen. My health isn't good and I don't think I will live for much longer. All I can leave behind are my thoughts and feelings and that's why I spend time on the Internet on various forums (not just here). I don't always get my thoughts and words 'right' and people will almost always argue and dispute what I wrote but I have to do the best I can. Not having children is a real disappointment for me and it also breaks my heart to think that the world might be doomed to the violence and hate as it appears to be. It's such a waste, things could be much better than this.

Here's a video clip I found and it's not all negative. Watch for the words and quotes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZWI2ntLHhs

Darn, had a post, lost it...

In a nutshell, my problem with your opinions is that they assume (a) the children of vegans will remain vegans for life, and (b) no one will become vegan as an adult. Neither of these are true. Few of us were probably raised vegan, and there are vegan/vegetarian parents whose kids are omnivores.

Nor should we assume that people cannot come to consciousness as adults.

To be fair, I would like for everyone to stop procreating, not just vegans.

Photon,

It doesnt seem reasonable to suggest that Vegans, by procreating, can attain a majority or even a moderately strong number to effect their influence on society.

Anyhow, the core issue, as L-I has mentioned earlier is that every walking human - Vegans included - consumes resources which are beginning to run out. So a population rise - Vegan or not - is definitely undesirable and unsustainable.

Lastly, I am quite bewildered by this sudden wave of negativity on our forum ... The frequent references to us being "doomed", on our "way to extinction" etc etc. and the tone of posts is correspondingly despondent.

moving youtubes photon. couple of people i'd like to send them to but their attention span and seriousness about serious things is pretty bare.

anyway, call me a space cadet or peculiar, but I don't know why people have children in the first place. neither do they, except to have little mini-me's of themselves. if i'm wrong, or have offended anyone, please, enlighten me.